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Solo over chord progression or chords to back up the solo?

In: Guns N' Roses, Rocking in the free world Thursday Aug 21,2008

slash guns and roses playing his gibson electric guitar At last rehearsal with the band we decided to cover Don’t cry from GNR, after all, it must be pretty easy, we all like GNR and this it’s a song we sing and play since high school, we know it by default, right? Eh, when listening the song I was surprised by a few nice progressions there, that I didn’t expect, that helped the song a lot. But that’s not the subject of this post.

The subject is actually the guitar solo or the guitar behind the solo, to be more exact. I didn’t pay too much attention in the beginning to the chords behind the solo, presuming they go by some repetitive chords like the chorus for ex. How wrong I could be!

After working this part with they guys in my band, I could say that my impression is that the solo was created first, and then they created a backup track to support the solo, which is totally strange from my point of view. I say this because the chords under the solo don’t follow any pattern, the length of a particular chord depends on the particular passage the solo plays and not the other way around.

My way of soloing is to actually improvise over a common pattern in the song, like the chorus or some intro, f.e. and I have never written a solo that I needed to back up later. I have some passages in particular songs that I needed to explain to my band mate playing the other guitar when he joined the band and I did need to find chords to match a particular progression but I was the only guitar player in the band at that moment and the only melodic backup was the bass line, which can be pretty free; I think this does not apply to GNR since Slash was never the only player there, isn’t it? Then?

My opinion is that Slash worked the solo without the second guitar player, in a free way, making the solo sound nice and then they searched for some backup chords to match the solo.

Listen here and tell me your call on this.

PS: When embedding this video here I was totally charmed by this song and listened every note of it until the end, totally forgetting I have this post under editing!!

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11 Responses to “Solo over chord progression or chords to back up the solo?”

Pribek
August 21st, 2008 at 12:48 pm

Good song, thanks for that Ovidiu.
“My opinion is that Slash worked the solo without the second guitar player, in a free way, making the solo sound nice and then they searched for some backup chords to match the solo.”

No way to tell for sure unless one of us can get him on the phone.

I’m going to disagree with you on this one my friend. It sounds to me like he is playing through changes, like his melodic ideas are built around the chords.

I think it’s a “Let’s think of a little different thing on the solo” kind of thing. All the chords are relative.

I don’t know if you are tuned down a half step or not but, I’m going to use the standard pitch for discussion which would mean the song is in Aflat minor (or Gsharp minor to some) the solo includes two chords that don’t appear in the rest of the song; Dflat minor, which is the IV and a half measure of Eflat7 which is the V chord.

There are different ways to look at this from a theory standpoint but, it is not an uncommon device that is used in classical music and different folk type music like flamenco or minor key blues.

In a natural minor scale the V chord here would be an Eflat minor. In a harmonic minor or melodic minor scale the V chord is the Eflat7. When practicing harmonic scales, it is often recommended that you play a natural while ascending and the harmonic minor while descending or vice versa. I’ve always thought that the reason for this was that it reflects how the dominant V is used in a lot of types of music. For instance the way it’s used in this song for only two beats.

I tend to think of this change as just a dominant 7 in a minor key rather than putting myself in a harmonic minor headspace for two beats.
Ovidiu
August 21st, 2008 at 2:02 pm

Indeed, Jack, this is a great song, I love it and now that I started to work it I find it even more pleasant.

This can be another way of looking at it, maybe indeed they have tried to come with “something different”, another angle to the theme of the song, because the D flat minor opens the song and gives it a new start there, like a new chapter while the E flat tensions the song; from this point of view, this song is somehow kind of a story, very well tensioned, there is not one moment of reaching the plateau, the song grows with every measure.

I also like, if you try it with the guitar to see what I mean, the fact that the song ends in C major (OK, flat in this case) even if the whole song is in Am.

Personally I consider this song a master work of how to compose and tension a song from the first note to the last one and, most of all, to make of a simple (and overused) progression like Am Dm G C a hit.

And, as always, Jack, your comments have a great value, I am always happy to answer to one of your comment here. By the way, I have my guitar in a standard pitch.
Pribek
August 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pm

So, you are in standard pitch but, you aren’t playing in Aflat, you’ve raised it a half step, correct?

Putting a little more pressure on the singer, eh?

Good idea, keeps ‘em honest.
Ovidiu
August 21st, 2008 at 2:54 pm

Yes, we play everything in standard tuning so yes we raised it half step. The fact is that when he can’t sing a song in the original pitch we usually adapt it for his voice, we find another tonality, like for ex Bon Jovi’s It’s my life is in C#m(or Cm, I don’t remember) but we play it in Am

However I had the surprise to see that Bon Jovi themselves play it in Am live even if on the record is in C#m but it was an unplugged version that I have heard in Am so it may be that on electric when it’s “stronger” to play it in the original tonality. Or it may be recorded in C#m to give it strength and energy but use Am as the tonality for live. I guess he needs to protect his voice. I deviated from the subject
Stratoblogster
August 25th, 2008 at 7:56 am

I’ve got something for you. 1974 - Michael Schenker on UFO’s Phenomenon album. A highly imaginative solo in an otherwise highly boring song “Time on My Hands”.

Your imagination is the key to soloing.

Listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-shD4j-tfU
Ovidiu
August 25th, 2008 at 9:58 am

Indeed, pretty imaginative and epic solo. A bit too in my opinion…
Stratoblogster
August 25th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

Here’s a spectrum for ya–

From this solo (2:06):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9OBw7yQEzg

To this solo (3:10):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqxo1SKB0z8

And all points in between. LOL:)))))
Ovidiu
August 26th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

Ha, ha! The solo in Neil Young’s song is the best ever
For Michael Jackson, isn’t Jenifer Batten the guitar player there? With such a name, you expect a great performance. It was in trend at that moment
MG
August 28th, 2008 at 8:06 pm

I don’t know-hard to tell on this one. I think that indeed-the chords are not as “patterned” as one might expect with a backing chord track, but they did have some other stuff that was pretty “all over the place” in terms of the backing chords during solos. That’s a toughy!
Ovidiu
August 28th, 2008 at 8:30 pm

It may be what Jack said, something different for the solo in the same tonality, just changing the opening chord, and that gives something new to the song.
Music
September 2nd, 2008 at 6:52 am

I looked at that solo on youtube…nice

Solo over chord progression or chords to back up the solo?

11 Responses to “Solo over chord progression or chords to back up the solo?”

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